Hey Mack,
Everyone and their mother seems to think that Giancarlo Stanton is the solution to all of the Mets problems. Yes he is possibly a generational talent, but he's not even arbitration eligible until after this season as far as i know. It doesn't seem in the marlins business model to trade him while he's cheap. The marlins got a lot of talent in their fire sale and Stanton is Arby until 2017.
I'd put it at 50/50 on whether they trade Stanton in one of the arbitration years. The marlins may be cheap, but they are slick businessmen (see stadium deal). There is no chance that they trade him right now, and unlikely next year.
Personally I'd like to see a solution in the outfield before that. And when we think of a trade of Giancarlo Stanton we should ask ourselves, are we going to be able to offer what other teams can to get him. I just don't see it matching up especially when you add in the fact that they are division rivals.
How about we try and solve the outfield "problem" rationally and with considerably less risk. Stanton might even be too expensive for Omar had this happened when Omar was spending the Wilpons ill gotten gains (off topic but the Omar spending spree tells me that Freddy knew exactly what Bernie was up to, they can't take from you what you don't have)
Ross -
Normally, after watching Verlander and Posey signing yesterday, I would tell you that a guy like Stanton will never hit free agency and will eventually be signed to a long term deal with the club he currently plays for.
The problem with that statement is he plays for the Marlins who refuse to guarantee a contract and have proven they will screw any player before his time.
The Mets need three long term outfielders.
All your great young outfielders under team control are being signed up by their current teams
Lucas Duda may be one of them, but he's no future all-star.
I see the potential of 3-5 guys in the system that could make Queens, but also NOT as an all-star.
Somebody is going to offer the Marlins 4-5 team controlled players and get this guy.
The Mets will only be in that position in a year. The deal could be:
IMO
17 comments:
Stanton isn't going to be traded this year but everyone around mlb thinks he'll go at the deadline or next offseason. He's going to get a record arbitration award that Miami won't want to pay and they'll be able to add 4-5 pieces to perpetuate their business model. Look at how they handled Cabrera. The problem is that the Mets need a RH power bat and all other potential options are very blah to say the least.
Im not even sure if that package gets you a discussion. It has to be starting with SYndergaard, Nimmo and at least 2 of our other top prospects
I think a package for Stanton would have to be 1 3B prospect, 1 2B prospect, 1 OF, 1 catcher, and 1-2 pitchers. These are their organizational needs.
The pitching the Mets can cover. If Valdespin plays to his talent he might fit in at 2B. I don't know if the Marlins would view Flores as a starting 3B or not. At the deadline (or even before) I would look to deal expendable parts to fill in at catcher, OF, and maybe another pitcher.
Deal becomes:
Montero
Flores
Valdespin
Acquired Catcher
Acquired P/OF
I also think the return will depend on what the Marlins get back for Nolasco when he's traded.
With Yelich, Marisnick, Hechavarria, Morrison, Turner, Fernandez, Heaney, Nicolino, et al, they're sitting pretty.
Swimmer is probably right
The Mets don't have the players right now to get this done in time
All depends on when he is moved. Not many teams will be able to afford his contract. Anyone acquiring him will want an extension if they deal the farm for him and he's going to cost 22-25 per year easily. What big market teams out there can afford him and have the prospects to deal?
the Dodgers can afford anyone :)
Luckily outside of Puig they don't have anything in their system to deal :)
Any deal will include TWO pitching prospects and one of them will have to be Syndergaard.
Now, add Montero, Flores, and Nimmo and they might do that deal.
Me? No, I wouldn't. 2014 is too close, the Mets are two or three outfielders and a great bullpen, not a good bullpen, a great bullpen, away from competing for a division. By 2015, all four of those guys I mentioned could be great starting players on a Mets championship caliber team.
The Mets are not one great bat away. Remember that...
They need to plug a lot of holes and could easily do most of it from their own system. One more year, they'll have the cash to fill in the gaps with great players. There's just no need to trade four top prospects away in their situation.
Unfortunately Charles there aren't going to be a lot of great players available for trade. I don't think anyone thinks the Mets should only get Stanton, we know the Mets have multiple holes to fill. But what if they can trade for Stanton and sign Choo. The 2-6 of the lineup becomes Choo Wright Stanton Davis d'Arnaud,
And why does it have to be Syndergaard? Lets wait and see how some if the other pitchers in the system progress. Their trade value might be much higher in a year.
If Montero and Fulmer increase their stock, would you trade them plus Flores and Nimmo? I wouldn't hesitate and I can't imagine why anyone else would.
I'm starting to think that we should target Tulo instead of Stanton. You could trade Murph for a great bullpen arm and move Tejada over to 2nd.
Flores, Duda, 1 top end pitcher and 2-3 loser prospects with upside.
Fantastic infield defense and offense.
Maybe you can even sign Choo and Pence for a combined average value of 25-30 million. Then you're all set.
Sorry no...
I believe they have a top to bottom dominant pitching staff with an excellent feeder system for it by holding onto their prospects.
With their current infield and Flores' addition to it(Murphy to the bench), I think they easily have enough cash to get whoever they want in free agency. They don't need superstars at every position in the outfield. I would much rather have the young pitching and trade a Gee or Niese for young outfielders, then trade away the prospects.
Their plan only works if they keep a solid minor league system in tact.
Who said anything about having superstar outfielders at every position? And you're only giving up two pitchers. I don't understand why you want to continually turn over the rotation. Given their age and upside, gimme Harvey, Wheelr, Niese, and Sundergaard together for the next 7 years if possible. That stability by definition makes some of the younger pitchers expendable in trade. I know you fancy the Tampa Bay model, I'd prefer to follow a Tampa Bay + money model. Build from within as much as possible but sign your guys. Holding onto every pitching prospect is going to have some die on the vine.
I don't see adding Hunter Pence (overrated) and Ellsbury (huge injury risk) as cutting it as far as giving this team the offensive boost they need.
Why not try and build a juggernaut of an offense as we're already well on the way towards a top pitching staff. I promise you, every single GM in baseball that has the Mets pitching depth would happily sacrifice two maybes, Flores, and Nimmo to bring in a proven slugger of Stanton's stature and age.
I don't care about the Mets being able to get who they want in FA, the chioices will be limited and lackluster. Most players are signing extensions or being traded before FA only to sign with their new teams. You can't gamble and wait on who might be available, you strike while the iron is hot.... It has the potential to be scorching with Stanton.
The point of having a feeder system to the majors is to BOTH produce players for the big league team as well as produce trade fodder. So we trade Montero and Fulmer, do what? Boo Hoo, now we only have Mazzoni, Pill, Mateo, and DeGrom fighting it out for bullpen spots, same as Fulmer and Montero would have. The Mets aren't going to trade Jon Niese because there is no other LH in the system. The only real question is who among Syndergaard, Fulmer, and Montero make the rotation. Right now my money is on Noah, but if it isn't swap him into the deal instead. Harvey, Wheeler, and Niese (assuming good health and production) will be here a long time.
If the Mets are going to have to trade some of their young pitching at some point (because there aren't enough spots) why not trade for one of the best RH sluggers of this generation?
I love the idea of Tulowitzki on the Mets. I also think this is the one superstar you could trade for by using Duda as one of the centerpieces - he'd be a great fit there,
Before we talk about what will or will not be possible as far as trades next offseason, lets see what happens at the deadline. If the Mets can bring in a bumper crop of young prospects and greatly expands their trading pool, their offseason target options could increase dramatically.
What young OF are you trading Gee for? The best talents won't be available and the lesser ones will take years to become contributors. If the Mets want to fix the OF, they're going to need established major league players.
I think I'll just disagree with you....
I just think young pitching is a lot more valuable then an outfielder. Even if its Giancarlo Stanton.
I've said this before, take Matt Cain away from the Giants and add Giancarlo...do they still win 2 WS? We don't know which pitchers will develop. I'm not giving up a potential SP 1 or 2, who'd be added to my already deep rotation of Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, and Gee, when I could just go out next off season and sign a couple of good outfielders.
You can look at who's going to be available and say none of them are equal to Stanton, and you'd be right. But, with the pitching staff the Mets will have, their great young catcher, very good infield, and hopefully one good outfielder from this year's team, they're not going to have to get super stars at every outfield position.
Pitching wins championships. Ask the Giants about that. I would trade anyone until I have my great rotation set.
Okay, agree to disagree.
I just think the Mets are in a position to have both. You're not trading Matt Cain and adding Stanton. You're trading Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran. While the Giants didn't win in 2011, they won in 2012 without Wheeler in their system.
The Giants have Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, and Vogelsong. I believe the Mets can have a rotation on par with this AND have a strong offense. Let's have both.
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